In the leadup to the launch of Mass Culture’s DNA Platform in November 2024, we were introduced to John Smithies, who leads the Australia-based Cultural Development Network (CDN). In early 2025, we sat down with John to learn more about the CDN’s work, and what brought him to the organization over 20 years ago.
In the early 1990s, with the advent of a state institution’s closure, came John’s appointment to a committee tasked with determining a process for its wind-down. The institution was the State Film Centre of Victoria, and the writing on the wall seemed to indicate that film libraries were being closed and replaced by video tape and television.
However, John argued that with the centenary of film fast approaching, and the impressive progress of digital technology altering “how we view the moving image […] this [wasn’t] the time to close down an institution: this [was] the time to rebuild one.” And thus, ACMI – Australian Centre for the Moving Image was conceived.
Without endorsed tools and recognized language to effectively draw parallels between culture and impact, John had to argue his case to government officials whose understanding of culture was limited: “Treasury didn’t understand what culture was … they know what hospitals do, but they don’t know what cultural institutions add.”
Concurrently with John’s efforts to launch ACMI, “a small dedicated crew” was inspired by the 2001 publication The Fourth Pillar (Jon Hawkes) to found the CDN. Hawkes’s work was “the first time that there was an articulated case for culture being regarded as a domain of public policy”, granting culture the same recognition typically ascribed to economic, social and environmental policy. 18 months following its founding, John joined the CDN, and was tasked to “put some meat on the bones” of culture as a domain for public policy.
This recognition of culture as a public policy domain, combined with the challenges John experienced getting ACMI off the ground (it was officially opened in 2004) helped drive their mission forward, and 20 years later, John and the CDN are at the forefront of transforming how cultural engagement is measured. By harnessing rigorous data and innovative evaluation methods, John and his team are redefining what it means to “measure the unmeasurable.” As he puts it, “If you do anything, why do you do it? What do you expect to happen?”
The need for measurable data to help answer such questions spurred the development of a systematic framework to capture not just outputs – like visitor numbers or event frequency – but the deeper, intrinsic outcomes of cultural activities.
At the heart of the CDN’s approach is a multi-layered evaluation framework, Takso. This system integrates three core components: measurable outcomes, a planning framework, and an evaluation of success factors. John explains the essence of this approach by drawing a comparison with the aviation industry flight data recorder. This captures not only the narratives, but also helps one “understand why this particular activity flew further than another one, what didn’t work and why it didn’t work.” As John puts it, “we’re as interested in why things crashed as much as why they went well.”
He elaborates that effective evaluation begins with clarity about the intended impact:
“Evaluation is only useful if you have an idea what you’re aiming to achieve to start with. So measuring something at the end and hoping to find something is kind of pointless.”
Rather, effective evaluation begins at the inception or arguably conception of the project. Not only does this support better evaluation, but it helps those leading the project ensure that their hoped-for outcome retains its clarity. To support this, the CDN created Takso’s Schema for measurable outcomes of cultural engagement, which offers a breakdown of 5 domains: Cultural, Social, Economic, Environmental and Governance.
By making the evaluation process explicit and grounded in a clear narrative, Takso transforms cultural activities into data-rich case studies. This method helps organizations move beyond simply counting activities (output) to understanding the underlying dynamics of cultural engagement (outcome).
A key insight from the CDN’s methodology is that cultural value isn’t inherent in the artwork or event itself – it emerges from the interaction between the activity and its audience. As John shares,
“It’s not the artwork that holds intrinsic value – it’s our response to it.”
In other words, evaluation must capture the nuanced human experiences, which Takso does by aggregating a wide range of metrics – from self-assessed evaluations to focus group insights – all rated on a consistent scale. “Everything has an evaluation plan,” he notes, ensuring that even the most intangible benefits are documented and analyzed.
The CDN’s data-driven approach has already proven its worth. Through extensive research and collaboration with local governments, the Takso framework has enabled cultural organizations to quantify outcomes like creativity, aesthetic enrichment, insight, and social connection. John recalls:
“When you ask people about what impact they got from participating [in a cultural activity], it always fits into one of these five dimensions – creativity, aesthetics, insight, diversity of cultural expression, or connection to shared cultural heritage.”
Moreover, tangible success stories reinforce the Takso framework’s validity. Organizations such as Western Edge Youth Arts and Beyond Empathy have leveraged these insights to significantly boost their funding and strategic planning. “They’ve quadrupled their funding because they’re not just doing activities – they’re achieving measurable outcomes,” John explains. John and the CDN have also worked to support organizations overseas, including in the UK and Europe.
Some organizations found themselves better positioned than many of their peers when the pandemic and its associated lockdowns hit. While other organizations had to scramble to adapt to updated funding requirements focusing on changed outputs , those working with the CDN had already defined their intended outcomes and thus, could change their activities (outputs) without changing contracts.
This robust aggregation of data – nearly 1,600 activities, with more than 800 fully evaluated – demonstrates how systematic evaluation can elevate cultural practice from intuition to actionable insight.
The implications of CDN’s evaluation model extend far beyond the cultural sector. John envisions that the same principles can be adapted to economic, environmental, and social policy. “We’re starting to see that these measures, though rooted in cultural engagement, are universal in their application,” he observes.
By providing a standardized, yet flexible, framework, CDN is not only reshaping how cultural activities are measured – they are also offering policymakers a reliable method to assess impact across a range of public policy areas.
The CDN’s commitment to data-driven evaluation is revolutionizing the way we understand cultural impact. By transforming intuitive practices into a measurable, transparent narrative, they are paving the way for a future where culture’s true value is recognized and integrated into broader policy frameworks. As John puts it, “If you want to know what happens, talk to [the audience] – not the artwork.”
An important reminder from John: these tools “only [have] value when people join in and use [them].” And these endeavours thrive on and indeed require collaboration. The CDN has done a lot of work to build out Takso and support a more outcome-focused approach but, as John shares, “We’ve only got part of the puzzle, and we’ve got a lot more work to do, but it isn’t going to happen by us; it’s going to happen by everybody joining up to do it.”
At Mass Culture, we look forward to supporting such endeavours; those that place community at the centre. The tool that sparked our conversation with John, the DNA Platform, similarly depends on community utilization. Such tools shine with use, growing into their potential with each organization who sees their value and takes the time to enrich the dataset.
As the conversation with John comes to a close, we reflect on what the CDN has accomplished. Through rigorous data, thoughtful planning, and a deep respect for the human response to culture, CDN’s approach offers a powerful blueprint for evaluating the unmeasurable – and ultimately, for enriching our communities with evidence-based cultural policy.
Measures of cultural outcomes of engagement in cultural activities (towards culturally rich and vibrant communities)
Creativity stimulated.
By ‘creativity stimulated’ we mean, the sparking of imagination, creativity or curiosity that leads to a desire for creative expression.
Aesthetic enrichment experienced.
By ‘aesthetic enrichment’ we mean, an experience that comes through the senses that is special and outside the everyday. This might include being moved or challenged through feelings such as beauty, awe, discomfort, joy, or wonder.
Knowledge, ideas and insights gained.
By ‘knowledge, ideas, and insight gained’ we mean, intellectual stimulation, critical reflection, creative thinking and deeper understanding.
Diversity of cultural expression appreciated.
By ‘an appreciation of diversity of cultural expression’ we mean, valuing the different ways people express themselves through diverse cultural forms, reflecting their life experience and interests.
Sense of belonging to shared cultural heritage deepened.
By ‘sense of belonging to a shared cultural heritage’ we mean, how one’s identity and values are rooted within a history and heritage that is shared with others.
Further reading
Get to know John
John Smithies
